obsessionisaperfume:

4persephone:

ruedesarchives:

The pleasure of killing - 4x11 | 9x19

I wonder if either brother have ever considered that perhaps Dean is misreading his own perceptions…that he is looking what he did and seeing pleasure in the act of killing as proof he is corrupt, when in fact the pleasure is not in the death itself, but in the claiming of power he so rarely had both on earth and in hell, and in the chance to release his internalized grief and rage.

*whimper*

dustydreamsanddirtyscars:

Can we talk about Dean’s expression here for a moment? This is right after him and Sam witness Jody beheading the mother (there is another meta that begs to be written btw about how “the mother” in 9x19 relates to 9x17 and “Abbadon as a ~mother figure”).

For a moment it seems that he cannot believe his eyes and actually looks kind of worried, alarmed and maybe even a little shocked, which is interesting since just minutes ago he killed a vamp in a pretty gruesome way and even demanded him to look into his eyes while doing the kill (which btw massively reminded me of the psychopathic killer in Simon Beckett’s “Whispers of the Dead”, who wanted to capture the moment when a person dies in a photograph) and was completely cold about it, but enjoying it.

Fast forward a couple of minutes from Dean’s dead looking eyes to this scene and the emotions you see flicker over this face. It seems like he truly is blind to his own actions (which might also explain why Dean so despeartely tries to see wipe the mirrors to be able to see himself) and his violence, which might be fitting since larinah just talked about how blindness was a big theme in this episode.

Sam, Dean, and what will remind Dean he can break free (why it can’t be Sam)

destinchester:

"It looked to me like you were enjoying it… maybe… to much" 

Sam is trying to break through Dean. He is doing it “on a thin line”, gently, but he is trying to keep Dean human. 

However, this doesn’t reach Dean at all this time. He turns it down with a snarky comment, but he is not fooling any one. Not Sam, not himself. 

And here is reason #323476 why it will eventually be Cas to break through him. The situation with Sam, in Dean’s lenses, is bad. And no matter how Sam is trying, he can’t reach to him. So he will try, because you don’t give up on family, and because he loves him and care for him. 

But there need to be someone else.

Alex was able to break free because she had someone from the outside (Josie) , while Sam is not ‘someone from the outside’ for Dean, he is an extension of himself. 

In order to break free, Dean will need someone from the outside to believe in him, and remind him who he really is. 

Gotta say, this was something of a take away for me as well. I’ve been flip-flopping over whether the show has been leaning towards a ‘Cas pulling Dean back from darkness’ or ‘Cas AND Sam pulling Dean back from darkness,’ but as of right now I agree with the above that the narrative implies Cas.

…whether Cas will succeed, well, that’s another matter!

After all, Alex WAS TURNED.

"Yeah, I know, I know, you wouldn’t have done the same for me"

4persephone:

crossroadscastiel:

littlehollyleaf:

fannishtalk:

littlehollyleaf:

Oh Sam SAM - NOTICE THIS THING DEAN SAID! I know you are all fuzzy and blood loss and stuff, but REMEMBER! It’s explaining the miscommunication you are both labouring under right now! It shows how Dean thinks you wouldn’t save him if he needed saving - REMEMBER THIS SO YOU CAN TELL HIM HE’S WRONG LATER!

Is he wrong? Isn’t this one of the things this season has been asking over and over? I mean, I think Sam WILL choose to save Dean/make the same choices he’s upset with Dean for making for him - but it’s a question the show has repeatedly asked this season.

I don’t quite agree. I feel like the show is saying Sam wouldn’t do what Dean did when it came to the Gadreel possession SPECIFICALLY - ie. he wouldn’t ‘save’ Dean at the cost of Dean’s agency and/or in direct and knowing opposition to Dean’s wishes. BUT Sam will still, of COURSE, choose to save Dean, even if it risks his own life to do so, in ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE in which his life is in danger.

Only Dean has misunderstood and believes that if his life is in danger Sam just won’t save him, period (because, as Dean understands it atm, Sam doesn’t love him as much as he loves Sam).

So, yeah, I think Dean IS WRONG in this instance - if it had been Dean tied to that chair then yes indeed Sam would have ‘done the same’ (ie. fought the vamps threatening his brother).

It’s heartbreaking though, because Dean is currently of the mind that Sam would NEVER save him, even if he was right there bleeding out, he would just let him die. We all know that isn’t true, but he is in such a dark place that he can not differentiate between “I wouldn’t save you AT ALL” and “I wouldn’t violate your agency to save you when I know what you want is to die.”

This is something that is either going to be addressed by the end of the season, or something that is going to continue to be a catalyst for Dean to slip further and further into darkness…

I think we’re going to end up with both… A Sam who finally realizes where the disconnect lies between his brother and him, but he’ll realize it too late..when Dean’s to imprisoned by his rage for Sam to get through any longer, or when Dean’s literally shouldered the wait of his self imposed penance and left to slay his monsters alone. I still can’t quite escape the thought this won’t end with a fight, but with a whimper…a Sam waking up to find an empty Bunker and what amounts to a blended suicide note/dear john letter from a off to clean up his mess Dean…

Aw man the way this have developed is making ME whimper!

(Cas to save the day pls??)

(I like the idea of a dark and depressed Dean slinking off… but idk, I kinda think Sam might only realise the extent of the disconnect/miscommunication when Dean is blade in hand and Sam is trying to talk him down, insisting what he’s doing is going to get him killed, only to have Dean yell back, furiously and bitterly, ‘like you care!’… and that also pushes my angst/tragedy buttons, so… ;p)

4persephone:

drsilverfish:

crossroadscastiel:

(via dustline)

Yes, and Jody understood that Alex was a child, that she had been acculturated to help kill people by her vamp family, and had grown up in a situation of abuse, when Dean and Sam believed Alex’s vamp-brother’s story, that she was responsible (which says everything about the levels of responsibility for killing they too were expected to bear as kids).  

This scene really hits me because what we see in Jody’s mannerisms with Alex is what we want, or possibly need, but are not getting in the current dynamic between Sam and Dean. Because it’s easy to label Dean as soley Mother and condemn or reject him, unless you have the wisdom to grasp he is Alex too, with years more conditioning he doesn’t know how to deal with. To label and treat Dean as Momma is to essentially abandon him as something irredeemable. To recognize his ties to Alex is to grasp he too could potentially be rehabilitated.. but only if someone in Dean’s life can be to Dean what Jody has chosen to be for Alex.

notturnofelsineo replied to your post: Whoa Dean killing that vamp!

I interpreted the scene as him unconsciously killing Sam, without even noticing.

Yes - that was actually my IMMEDIATE interpretation of the scene as well! (despite the fact I babble about Dean-Momma stuff first in the post - that just kind of vomited out of me stream of consciousness style as I started typing and it took me a while to get back to what I’d intended to say!)

It just seems… v. fitting, what with the Mark of Cain and all, and ‘bitch’ being such an UNUSUAL insult from Dean to a guy I feel? And then the line is brought up again at the end of the episode, emphasising it, implying it IS important, so…

And I’ve been figuring for a while that Dean’s mistaken idea that Sam doesn’t care about him enough to save him if he were dying might be festering away inside Dean and making him BITTER (we already know from S08 that Dean harbours a fair bit of bitterness towards Sam anyway that he struggles to let go of after all), so I can well imagine the various feelings of hurt and unfairness and resentment involved in thinking Sam doesn’t really care about him exploding out of Dean in a rage at some point in which all he wants is to lash out at Sam. So, yeah, what happened with the vamp was, uh… kind of an extreme visual of something I’ve been wondering might happen between Dean and Sam for a while!

NO BUT GUYS

whitmerule:

Everyone kept telling stories about Alex. The wild girl brought in by the cop - the poor human blood cow - the scheming bloodthirsty honey trap - the substitute daughter - and every time it looked persuasive, because we are used to hearing one version of a character of the week and then having that overwritten by whatever the Winchesters find out about them (usually innocent witness/victim -> monster/accomplice).

But this time not one of those stories was complete - not one of them was true, even if all of them were to some extent real (to use Gabriel’s distinction last week). 

And to match it all, we had the tug-of-war over names too, and her right to choose her own name. And in the end she insisted on choosing both her own name and her own story. Despite Winchesters.

And implicitly, given we’re heading for the end of the season: despite Metatron.

Hee I used meta!Gabriel’s phrase as well! :)

Yes, this. This is an awesome thing.

And AND AND - the thing is, by the end of the episode Alex HADN’T defined herself. She had no big glorious moment where she stabbed her vampire mother and declared ‘I am HUMAN!’ or ‘my name is _!’ or anything like that. She ended the episode as none of the identities/labels the other characters had given her - AND THAT WAS OKAY. Because it’s okay not to define yourself if you don’t want to, it’s okay to be in the process of finding out who you are or re-defining yourself or to be constantly developing your identity. Because you don’t need to escape one identity by adopting another.

She became, perhaps, like Cas - ‘nothing.’ And so is able to grow into being whoever she chooses.

Yay for Alex!

Anonymous
about the movie "Queen of the damned";I don't know if the spn writers got any inspiration from it or not, but the movie itself is largely despised for being one of the worst cases of an adaptation completely butchering the origin material- in this case, the book series The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice, and especially the 2nd and 3rd books(which the movie is a poor mashup of) "The vampire Lestat" and "Queen of the Damned". It's a much better idea to read the books if you want to know more. :)

Ah, thank you anon, but I’m not really interested in the story enough to read the books (I’m not even sure if I’m interested enough to actually watch the film :p). I was mostly struck by the similarity of camera shot the gifs in dusty’s post presented, tbh.

And after reading the post I am now fairly interested to see if things with Dean will develop in a way similar to how the plot of the film develops. See, I actually imagine that the upcoming ‘King of the Damned’ episode IS a reference to the film - the show is big on referencing films/songs in its titles that way… in which case the film will possibly have more relevance to spn than the books. Alas - for I had already heard that Queen of the Damned was widely considered a poor adaptation, as you say.

We will see how the mood takes me when it comes to reading the book or watching the film… :p

shellofduality
Alex also reminded me of Abigail from Hannibal! She even had the same look about her with the dark hair parted in the middle as was her father's "type" of girl that she lured for him to kill. I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this.

Heh heh, I am now imagining Robert B. and the costume/make-up department reading this thinking -

(actually, the whole episode had a feel that was similar to Hannibal to me… perhaps simply because it was rather intensely psychological? I got the same kind of ‘my brain is hurting trying to grasp all the emotions and inner turmoil involved here’ headache as I sometimes get when watching Hannibal!)

BRAVO AAAA!

whitmerule:

littlehollyleaf:

WOW, sweetie, that was some serious ‘facing your abuser’ stuff there, you are one strong, brave person, bravo!

And Jody - you sweet, kind, caring lady telling her not to watch.

…intense.

YES not only do ladies have their own stories here but they repeatedly refuse to allow the men to define them.

it almost makes you wonder if we’ve been watching a different show

I mean… *whistles*

whitmerule replied to your post: Oh, there’s a plot reason for ‘Alex’ a…

It isn’t the John thing - it’s about everyone trying to write Alex’s story for her. :) They keep coming up with different versions of her throughout the episode, and she keeps choosing a different one. Metafiction!

(I think there’s a John-thing too!)

But oh POINT, yes. It’s another in a long line of stories/identities put on Alex… and all of them are ‘true’… but none of them are real??? (sorry, my mind and heart are really still with last week’s episode!). But, yeah, something like that anyway - all the different identities people interpret Alex as having are the ‘truths’ of others - only she can determine her real/authentic Self/identity?

(yay for getting metafiction in this episode after all!)

"Yeah, I know, I know, you wouldn’t have done the same for me"

fannishtalk:

littlehollyleaf:

Oh Sam SAM - NOTICE THIS THING DEAN SAID! I know you are all fuzzy and blood loss and stuff, but REMEMBER! It’s explaining the miscommunication you are both labouring under right now! It shows how Dean thinks you wouldn’t save him if he needed saving - REMEMBER THIS SO YOU CAN TELL HIM HE’S WRONG LATER!

Is he wrong? Isn’t this one of the things this season has been asking over and over? I mean, I think Sam WILL choose to save Dean/make the same choices he’s upset with Dean for making for him - but it’s a question the show has repeatedly asked this season.

I don’t quite agree. I feel like the show is saying Sam wouldn’t do what Dean did when it came to the Gadreel possession SPECIFICALLY - ie. he wouldn’t ‘save’ Dean at the cost of Dean’s agency and/or in direct and knowing opposition to Dean’s wishes. BUT Sam will still, of COURSE, choose to save Dean, even if it risks his own life to do so, in ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE in which his life is in danger.

Only Dean has misunderstood and believes that if his life is in danger Sam just won’t save him, period (because, as Dean understands it atm, Sam doesn’t love him as much as he loves Sam).

So, yeah, I think Dean IS WRONG in this instance - if it had been Dean tied to that chair then yes indeed Sam would have ‘done the same’ (ie. fought the vamps threatening his brother).