laoih:

about Dean's relationships with women

deathtakesapicklechip replied to your post: I’m just bugged at this phrasing -

ding ding ding! we have a winner. (seriously.)

If you’re worried like me, bunkermouse makes some great points here I think about Sam needing to once again embrace his violent streak in order for Dean to see what the toxicity of their bond does to him and for Sam to finally begin to face/acknowledge/understand that part of himself and work to control it (much in the same way Dean had to “regress” last season to hit rock bottom and will be facing his darker side in S10)

The Dark Side of Sam Winchester

bunkermouse:

TV Line has released an interview with Carver that containers a vast amount of teases for season 10 of Supernatural. The one thing that fans are calling into question is that Carver says that Sam is going to go down a dark path to find his brother.

There are two main reasons this arc is neither surprising or unwanted. First Sam’s conscience will not allow him to sit idly or hide from his brother’s disappearance. He did that in season 8 and his brother came back, angry, hurt and traumatized. It was made clear in the beginning of season 8 that their spoken agreement that if one of them went missing the other would go on with their life was null and void.

This season is going to show Dean that their codependency hurts Sam, it is going to turn him into a monster. It is going to show Dean that he needs to let his brother go and let him make his own life choices in order to be happy. But, the question is will demon!dean care that his brother is doing monstrous things in the name of finding his brother? I think that he eventually will.

The second thing is that Sam has always been the brother with the temper, the one more prone to violence. It’s the quiet ones you have to watch out for, right? We’ve seen it many times. He basically turned into a sociopath after being tortured by the Trickster. They didn’t know if it would be safe to show Sam Brady because they didn’t think he would be able to think past his rage. Sam’s rage and violence is hot and fueled by passion. It’s predominantly sat on the back burner in the past few years as he’s been our lovable broken puppy but that does not mean that it is gone because violence is an innate characteristic for Sam.

Dean had never truly been a dark character until he went to hell. He isn’t violent in the way that Sam is. Where Sam will break your face in Dean will calmly slice you up. It’s that little piece of Alistair that has lived inside him ever since he got off the rack.

I really can’t wait for this season because it seems like the writers have gone back into the archives to look for character arcs that were neglected, traits that were left unchecked and have festered. The beginning of the season is not going to be pretty. If you’ve seen Being Human, which is also run by Carver, you know that Carver likes to tear characters apart before putting them back together. It is going to be dark, Sam’s darker side is going to drive him to find his brother because he knows that his brother is out there. Bodies don’t just disappear. If he doesn’t find his brother then he has failed him just like he failed him in season 8 (which he really didn’t but that is how the boys see it). I wonder who he will go after for answers.

I’m just bugged at this phrasing -

as a sort of answer to the beginning of Season 8, when Sam actively didn’t look for his brother, Sam this year is really looking for his brother but doesn’t have any idea of what happened to him when the season starts.”

Because, after SERIOUS initial misgivings/confusion (and calls of OOC), Sam’s decision to NOT try and ‘look’ for Dean at the beginning of S08 (which I have come to interpret as Sam accepting Dean’s apparent DEATH and thus Sam choosing not to try and resurrect him, and not, in fact, Sam not ‘looking’ for Dean) became one of the BEST THINGS about Sam’s S08 arc for me.

So… I’m reading this like - but that didn’t need an ‘answer.’ It didn’t need reversing, or backpeddling from, or… or whatever Carver is trying to say… It was a cool thing… :(

Also… I don’t think the situations really compare. 

I’m assuming that this time round Sam KNOWS Dean is out there somewhere, even if he’s not quite sure how or in what state - because a missing dead body (which I’m assuming will be what happens) is not the same as Dean vanishing in a monster explosion. So this time Sam cannot assume Dean is dead and gone beyond the realms of the natural, he’ll know (or strongly suspect) Dean is findable, so it makes more sense just logically that he will look for him.

…idk…I’m not big time worried, the spoiler doesn’t exactly give details, there’s a lot that could be going on with Sam, I’m just mildly concerned there’s potential for Sam’s character to return old, growing increasingly dreary, patterns…we’ll see…

TVLINE | You’ve had instances where the boys were possessed, but now Dean’s fully a demon. What made you decided now was the time to pull the trigger and go down that avenue?

Dean being a demon here ties into a deeper mythology in the show, that being the Mark of Cain and Cain. That’s really one of the places we started to get the idea. The show has made a point of saying how rooted these brothers are in, frankly, the mythology of the world, and to find another anchor that was literally around at the beginning of time made us feel like… It wasn’t so much the spectacular effect or whatever of Dean being a demon. It’s more just rooting him in something more final, something that will not necessarily totally go away even when/if he’s converted back from demonism.


TVLINE | Dean as a demon, how is that different from Dean just being possessed by a demon temporarily? What is he like?

Dean is not possessed by anything. It’s his own soul that’s been twisted into a demon soul, so this demon is not anyone other than Dean. So every thought, every action, that’s Dean, as opposed to some other demon possessing him. So while he’s a demon, that causes some complication of thought in him in that, “This is really me doing it.” It also motivates a certain bravado. “Yeah, this is me doing and owning it!” There’s a real period for Dean of deciding how dark he’s going to be and what kind of demon he’s going to be, because he can’t blame it on anyone else but himself. And then afterwards is when it will have the most effect on him because it was him. It was his actions that led him to becoming a demon. He pushed it with the Mark. He pushed Sammy away at the end of last season. He said, “I can do this by myself.” So there’s a certain consequence to all this that is almost more interesting to us than the actual demon part.


TVLINE | Does it intensify some of his bad qualities? He’s not a bad person, but he has qualities like all of us that we’re not proud of.

Yes. I don’t think demon Dean is the nicest fellow around the block. And that’s by design. He’s not intended to be a particularly nice guy and that’s one of the things he struggles with. He knows how he’s acting. Sometimes, he’ll fight against that in odd ways. That’s the real conflict that’s within him right now when he’s a demon. Because it is him. He’s not unaware of what he’s doing. And although his soul is twisted, he is not without a certain amount of self-examination.


TVLINE | What does that mean for his relationship with Sam?

Their relationship very much ended on an up note last year. So as a sort of answer to the beginning of Season 8, when Sam actively didn’t look for his brother, Sam this year is really looking for his brother but doesn’t have any idea of what happened to him when the season starts. Sam is so invested in finding his brother that it leads him to do some questionable things that will make him and, certainly, the audience wonder which one of these guys is the true monster.


TVLINE | So are you picking up right where you left off, or is there a bit of a time jump?

No, there’s a bit of a time jump. Not too long, just enough for Dean to have made some waves as a demon.


TVLINE | Mark Sheppard is now a series regular, so how does Crowley fit into the picture and what is his role in Dean’s new life?

That’s very much a topic of where we start the show. Crowley, as we see at the end of Season 9, is very excited about the idea of essentially howling at the moon with his new buddy Dean. We’ll see in Episode 1 that Crowley has slightly different designs to get that and will be proposing a business relationship, which Dean may or may not accept. That’s the subject of the first run of episodes — what is their relationship going to be?


TVLINE | And what can you say about Castiel’s story? Is he still in Heaven trying to manage things?

No. When we pick up Castiel, he will be on Earth. He will be alone for reasons that are explained, but not alone for too long, and he will be very much in a similar place where we last saw him in that he still has the stolen grace, still fading. He’s still in danger of death. The moral question for Castiel is, “How do I stay alive? How do I not be a burden on others [like] Sam, who’s got his own problems? How do I get grace to live without taking another angel’s grace?” So he’s in a bit of a quandary.

Jeremy Carver on season 10 (X)

It also motivates a certain bravado. “Yeah, this is me doing and owning it!” There’s a real period for Dean of deciding how dark he’s going to be and what kind of demon he’s going to be, because he can’t blame it on anyone else but himself. And then afterwards is when it will have the most effect on him because it was him. It was his actions that led him to becoming a demon. He pushed it with the Mark. He pushed Sammy away at the end of last season. He said, “I can do this by myself.” So there’s a certain consequence to all this that is almost more interesting to us than the actual demon part.

YES - Dean OWNING his actions/choices, accepting personal responsibility!

he is not without a certain amount of self-examination

YES! This is everything I wan-

Sam is so invested in finding his brother that it leads him to do some questionable things that will make him and, certainly, the audience wonder which one of these guys is the true monster

Goddamn it Sam, you were supposed to be over this! Dean is poised to progress forwards into self-reflection and independence and you’re moving BACKWARDS into the Mystery Spot ‘anything to get my brother back’ persona that your S08 decision to let Dean go was all about you not wanting to become again…? I’m not interested in seeing a return to that…

there’s a bit of a time jump. Not too long, just enough for Dean to have made some waves as a demon

CURIOUS!

Anonymous
I'm worried about Cas after that TV Line article. :( Not sure for his safety, but also for how much longer he and Misha will be on the show.. help?

yaelstiel:

Hey friend. 

TVLINE | And what can you say about Castiel’s story? Is he still in Heaven trying to manage things?
No. When we pick up Castiel, he will be on Earth. He will be alone for reasons that are explained, but not alone for too long, and he will be very much in a similar place where we last saw him in that he still has the stolen grace, still fading. He’s still in danger of death. The moral question for Castiel is, “How do I stay alive? How do I not be a burden on others [like] Sam, who’s got his own problems? How do I get grace to live without taking another angel’s grace?” So he’s in a bit of a quandary.

I can understand your concern, and I am sorry you are worried, so here I will try to help as you so nicely asked:

What I see in this interview is how Carver sees Cas as an important character, who has struggles, and moral dilemmas (how can I keep living but not stealing others grace?) Carver posed here many questions, and I don’t think he would’ve done it if Cas wasn’t going to go through a path of growth. 

From what I grasp there are two main topics for Cas,

1)the grace

2) his bond with Sam (how can he not be a burden» starting to see how to blend in humanity) 

I don’t see those deep topics for a character that isn’t important. even for Crowley, which can be similar as a regular this season, they didn’t pose those questions.. there is place for Cas to grow, and I am sure he’ll be with us until the end of the season. 

Let’s hope his story will continue to evolve, and that we will get to see him even more. 

yaelstiel:

greekedtext:

lost-shoe:

yaelstiel:

castiels-fangirl:

yaelstiel:

mewsicalmiss:

yaelstiel:

”...And I think that is that- the honeymoon is over quickly with that…” (Jensen Ackles TCA 2014) X

There ain’t nobody controlling Dean Winchester, and this Dean Winchester will come back to us. 

I knew Dean wouldn’t be a good little demon.

Exactly! he will be a full force of DEAN WINCHESTER, and it’s important, because whatever he will do will be his choosing, even if influenced by the blade. this is so important because it will be Dean Winchester that will want to come back to humanity, it will be his choosing, he is a force of free will, and how it can be used to both sides. and I can’t wait for him to explore his identity through it, and to understand (even if after a series of wrongs) that he isn’t 90% crap. that he is so much more , that nothing define him other that what he choose to do, that he can change, he can make it, he is strong and good and brave. 

And he will come back. 

but

what if he doesn’t want to come back.

I guess for a while that is very possible, he might embrace those new powers, being stronger than everyone, being powerful, but this isn’t what Dean was looking for, so it wouldn’t fill the hole, and at some point he’ll realize that this isn’t what he wants.  

Dean didn’t want to become a demon, he’d rather die than become a demon, and he will remember it, at some point. 

Also, don’t forget he has Sam and Cas, he is not alone, they will remind him who he is, they will remind him he is good, and brave, and kind, they will remind him of all the people he has saved all those years, they will remind him of family, of love, of  who he is and what he is capable of. 

And he will come back. Have no doubt in that. 

I love all of this! I keep saying it but Dean needs this, he needs to discover who he truly is. Singer has said that being a demon has freed Dean of the emotional baggage he has carried with him for as long as he can remember, and it’s only when unburdened with that load that he can be free to explore who Dean Winchester is. Not the roles he was assigned when a child, not the obligations he’s held himself to, but the individual he is that has been stifled for so long. And though his corrupted self is going to go through a dark journey, it is a necessary evil, because, and I apologise for repeating myself again and again, but without seeing what a true monster is, he will never realise that the human he was before never was one. And that flawed but inherently good soul is worth fighting for, is worth saving. So as Yael says, eventually he will come back, he will find his way, and he will be all the stronger, in body, mind and soul.

I suspect that “but what if he doesn’t want to come back” is going to be one of the major sources of narrative tension next season.

I suspect that too, for a period of time. As lost-shoe said here, it’s a necessary evil he has to go through in order to understand he is not a monster. 

I think he will embrace the demonic powers for a time, thinking it might fill the hole he felt for so long, but realizing it doesn’t. Then slowly realizing he wants to become human again. 

Every time I think we’ve reached the limit of the discussion on this post there’s a spot on addition :p

Yeah, I think demon!dean will be like soulless!Sam in a lot of ways (and v much not like him in others!) inc. resisting the return of his soul/humanity. Ultimately, though, unlike soulless!Sam, I believe Dean will choose his humanity willingly. I mean, I think it’s POSSIBLE and there’s a chance a cure might be forced on him by Sam and Cas, but I think it’s unlikely. Seems to me more likely choosing/wanting to be human again will form part of Dean’s growth, will be about him embracing independence and taking personal responsibility of his specific actions and choices, instead of believing himself guilty/responsible for anything/everything bad in his life (and thus, paradoxically, leaving him feeling like he’s NOT exactly responsible for or in control of said actions and choices).

'SUPERNATURAL' SEASON 10 MIGHT SEE CASTIEL & METATRON JOINING FORCES   

neven-ebrez:

It’s not just the Winchester boys who can’t catch a break. In the Season 9 finale of Supernatural, Castiel successfully broke the angel tablet that gave Metatron his power and locked the rogue angel away in Heaven’s dungeon, rather than letting him get killed by the angels he tried to manipulate….

None of this seems to be based in spoiler fact. Seems to me there is no certainty that Cas’ grace is even still intact and able to be looked for… Though I v much hope this spec is true! I was expecting Cas to end up tracking down his own grace last season (or for Dean to find it for him), so he could then chose to reject it. Providing an alternative solution to the deteriorating grace can be found, I think that plot could still be a go (and gosh it would be a hell of a lot more meaningful if Dean went ahead and fought to get Cas his grace back as a demon!).

lost-shoe:

yaelstiel:

castiels-fangirl:

yaelstiel:

mewsicalmiss:

yaelstiel:

”...And I think that is that- the honeymoon is over quickly with that…” (Jensen Ackles TCA 2014) X

There ain’t nobody controlling Dean Winchester, and this Dean Winchester will come back to us. 

I knew Dean wouldn’t be a good little demon.

Exactly! he will be a full force of DEAN WINCHESTER, and it’s important, because whatever he will do will be his choosing, even if influenced by the blade. this is so important because it will be Dean Winchester that will want to come back to humanity, it will be his choosing, he is a force of free will, and how it can be used to both sides. and I can’t wait for him to explore his identity through it, and to understand (even if after a series of wrongs) that he isn’t 90% crap. that he is so much more , that nothing define him other that what he choose to do, that he can change, he can make it, he is strong and good and brave. 

And he will come back. 

but

what if he doesn’t want to come back.

I guess for a while that is very possible, he might embrace those new powers, being stronger than everyone, being powerful, but this isn’t what Dean was looking for, so it wouldn’t fill the hole, and at some point he’ll realize that this isn’t what he wants.  

Dean didn’t want to become a demon, he’d rather die than become a demon, and he will remember it, at some point. 

Also, don’t forget he has Sam and Cas, he is not alone, they will remind him who he is, they will remind him he is good, and brave, and kind, they will remind him of all the people he has saved all those years, they will remind him of family, of love, of  who he is and what he is capable of. 

And he will come back. Have no doubt in that. 

I love all of this! I keep saying it but Dean needs this, he needs to discover who he truly is. Singer has said that being a demon has freed Dean of the emotional baggage he has carried with him for as long as he can remember, and it’s only when unburdened with that load that he can be free to explore who Dean Winchester is. Not the roles he was assigned when a child, not the obligations he’s held himself to, but the individual he is that has been stifled for so long. And though his corrupted self is going to go through a dark journey, it is a necessary evil, because, and I apologise for repeating myself again and again, but without seeing what a true monster is, he will never realise that the human he was before never was one. And that flawed but inherently good soul is worth fighting for, is worth saving. So as Yael says, eventually he will come back, he will find his way, and he will be all the stronger, in body, mind and soul.

I love the idea of Crowley having to ‘reach out for help’!

coolification:

Like, him slinking to Sam and Cas, hanging his head, probably bloody cos Dean has lashed out at him, all ‘I fucked up… I thought we were besties, but now he’s broken his leash and run away and I can’t control him and I, uh, I think, maybe… Help?’

Then he collapses at their feet in a wounded heap. A defeated king, not master of the chess board after all. A piper without a tune, his flute stolen.

Oh oh! Or maybe he has to convey all of this through mime or written signs because Dean has stolen his voice like Cain did! Making Crowley literally without song/tune - the key to his manipulative skill, his power of persuasion/seduction, his silver tongue, his voice, ripped from him! Leaving him totally incapable of ”manipulation/control, because you can’t make others dance to your tune when you have no tune!

Ugh that would be beautifully symbolic, damnit I want that now! :p

Oh I love how you worded all of this, Holly! :)  It’s kind of what I hoped to happen: Crowley having to face the music and realize that Dean cannot be tamed and that he is in over his head. He might have been able to pull Dean’s strings when Dean was still human and vulnerable, but this version of Dean seems to be a whole other kind of Dean (and I am endlessly excited to see him on my laptop screen - seriously, the potential in this arc is mindblowing) and demon.

And god, yes, I would love it immensly if the foreshadowing we got in 9x11 “First Born”, like Tara’s knee for example as well and Dean asking Cain to teach him how to shut Crowley up would come back into play in a big way.

The king of hell’s voice stolen, silenced. I love it! :)

When it comes to him reaching out for help I guess Sam and Cas would be the first logical assumption, but what if he actually goes to Cain? He will have to come back into the picture at some point. Not onyl because Dean promised to use the blade on him, but because I actually would love it, if Dean learnt from Cain how to control his newfound demonhood.

All that being said. You know what this all reminds me of as well? How Crowley sort of made fun of the wicked witch, who could not speak either (though he was friendly to her and helped her along)… Oh Crowley: pride comes before a fall…

Just had a weird idea, what if Dean takes kind of ‘revenge’ on Crowley for changing him into a demon (well, Crowley didn’t actually do it but he kinda had his hands in it…) by curing him, making Crowley human(=powerless) he ‘only’ needs to find a purified person to help him with the Cure… maybe he’s forcing a priest to do it. Then helpless (humiliated) Crowley contacts Sam & Cas for help… o.O

…hey it’s over 35°C here in my attic room …basic brain functions LOL ;D

OMG, I would love it to pieces!!! A complete reversal, that would put Dean back into the driver’s seat. Taking back the agency he lacked when the blade was pushed into his hand twice. And it brings me back to a certain dialogue in 9x21 “King of the Damned” when Abaddon shoots Crowley and tells him

"You are not seriously damaged, just powerless"

Oh hell yes cured Crowley!!! And it would also be similar to when Metatron stole Cas’ grace, which would frame Dean as the vilain here and reinforce the parallels between Crowley and Cas, except it would be different this time, wouldn’t it¿? Because Dean is not exactly a villain and Crowley is not exactly an innocent victim either.

And then imagine Dean taking control of Hell, just because HE CAN.

And imagine Crowley, having to face Sam and Cas in that estate, and Cas goes to do good on his promise from Road Trip (“When you betray us, I’ll be the one to carve out your heart”), but then Crowley has to admit that he is human now because Dean made him, and Sam and Cas just laugh bitterly but with this sort of saisfaction that Crowley’s plan came back to bite him in the ass, and they say “Well, he did good, that’s exactly what you deserve”, and then they just use Crowley for as long as he can help them and just leave him to his misery after that, with an optional scene of any of the two taking pity on him and talking about how he can earn his redemption or whatever.

I dunno about cured!Crowley - because I fear if he is made human it will risk a full redemption arc, which I don’t want. Or if not redemption, I feel like he is unlikely to die/be killed if cured, and I’m still hoping for a cathartic kill :p (but then, his end/defeat could mirror Metatron’s, which could be cool - our leads being the bigger people and taking the moral victory of NOT killing him…maybe…) Love the idea of Crowley going to Cain - I figure he’s gotta come back into play somehow. I was thinking Sam and Cas would track him down to find a solution to the Mark (I have daydreams about that actually and Cain being weird with Sam cos he reminds him of Able and Sam chewing Cain out for ‘saving’ Able against his will and without bothering to just talk to and understand his brother first instead of taking control and assuming he knew best and stuff… But that’s thoughts for another day!). But yeah, Crowley going to Cain could work, then to Sam and Cas when Cain throws him out, then all of them go together? :-) (Also kinda hoping Able himself might turn up, but that’s a personal pipe dream of mine :p)

I love the idea of Crowley having to ‘reach out for help’!

Like, him slinking to Sam and Cas, hanging his head, probably bloody cos Dean has lashed out at him, all ‘I fucked up… I thought we were besties, but now he’s broken his leash and run away and I can’t control him and I, uh, I think, maybe… Help?’

Then he collapses at their feet in a wounded heap. A defeated king, not master of the chess board after all. A piper without a tune, his flute stolen.

Oh oh! Or maybe he has to convey all of this through mime or written signs because Dean has stolen his voice like Cain did! Making Crowley literally without song/tune - the key to his manipulative skill, his power of persuasion/seduction, his silver tongue, his voice, ripped from him! Leaving him totally incapable of manipulation/control, because you can’t make others dance to your tune when you have no tune!

Ugh that would be beautifully symbolic, damnit I want that now! :p


yaelstiel:

deanwuvzhugz:

Jensen Ackles previews ‘Supernatural’ Season 10 key relationships

I love the little smile when asked if Crowley is using Dean, because it seems like NO WAY IN HELL HE WILL LET CROWLEY SUE HIM. like Crowley will be in such a mess, and I really hope for Dean-in-control- kicking Crowley’s ass (I am also okay with not in control as long as he kicks Crowley’s ass). I am so in for that. Sure the honeymoon will end quickly, this is Dean Winchester, and he is no one’s property. 

HA! 

yaelstiel:

”...And I think that is that- the honeymoon is over quickly with that…” (Jensen Ackles TCA 2014) X

There ain’t nobody controlling Dean Winchester, and this Dean Winchester will come back to us. 

Jeremy Carver revealed to E! News that Supernatural’s 200th episode will be something of a “musical-ish” episode, which the longrunning series has never done. Feel free to take a moment to bask in the sheer awesomeness of this idea.
**
“I think it’ll be one of the more amusing and engaging episodes we’ve done in a while. I think we can safely call this a meta episode,” Carver previewed of the milestone outing, which will be the fifth episode of the new season. “We’re going pretty meta. I would just describe it as something of a love letter to our fans and there will be songs.” xx (via suicidallyreckless)